Interview with Mak Wilson

What brought you to the Return to Oz Project?

It's hard to remember as to what brought me to the project. I think it was Lyle visiting the Greystoke set and Rick Baker introducing me to him. At the time of course Lyle was considering me as Tick Tock, and that's what I was going to do originally. If you look at the Cinefex article, that's me inside the clear perspex Tick Tock. However, I sustained a back injury during Greystoke so it was thought unwise for me to do the part. After telling Lyle that I was also a puppeteer he then considered me for Billina.

The first week of rehearsals was a little strange as it was a workshop to see who would be doing what on Billina. We discovered that Lyle was originally going to perform it, so he was keeping an eagle eye on everyone. Eventually the lead role was given to me.

What were all of your roles in Return to Oz?

My main role on the film was to head the performance on Billina the talking chicken. It was a job I loved. Not only because it was my first film puppeteering job, but because I always loved the challenge of coordinating several performers to do one character. My theatre training had helped me with this having done a lot of Bunraku style puppetry. I was going to perform the voice also, which I did on set, but this went to a woman in the end, which was only right.

I also puppeteered on Jack Pumpkinhead and the Gump when extra hands were needed. This was the first time I worked with Brian (Henson) who was lead performer and voice of Jack.

Can you describe your experience with the cast and crew,( ie Fairuza, Walter, etc.)

It was a fantastic film to work on with a great atmosphere... once we got past the Walter being fired episode. Walter was a dream to work with and such a nice man. He became almost a father figure to me and we did a fair amount of socializing and I stayed at his London home a couple of times. My girlfriend/wife Fiona (we were married during filming) did some 'baby' sitting for family and had long chat with Walter's wife Aggy - who was the set nurse - about horses.

Fairuza was scarily intelligent and talented. What a pro. It was wonderful to watch her work and to work with her, which I did a lot of of course. Very closely at times! She totally believed that animatronic chicken, which made my job that much easier. You always thought she could go on to be a fine adult actress, and she did.

All the puppeteers were a dream to work with and one of them, Sue Dacre, I still see now and again and have done a number of films with. I ended up doing a lot of work with Dave Greenaway (he of Yoda eyes) after Oz. They must have been a great bunch to put up with me!

As I mentioned, this was the first time Brian Henson and I worked together, but it was the start of many projects, both with him and then the Creature Shop. We always enjoy working together and I miss being able to do so now the London Creature Shop is closed.

From what I remember everyone on the cast and crew had a pretty good experience, but that may be my rose tinted spectacles working there. It's usually the case that if you have someone relaxed and just a nice bloke at the top, it filters all the way down.

Are there any interesting stories you remember that happened on set?

The strongest memory has to be having Steven Spielberg, Francis Ford Copolla and George Lucas sitting on set to help their friend Walter when things got sticky for a while. I have a wonderful photograph of us showing Steven how Billina worked. All the puppeteers are looking very serious, but at the side is a star struck Steve Norrington (Blade, League of Gentlemen) who did most of the building of Billina.

There was a great out take of Billina, which I wish still existed. It's one of the shots of Billina on the Yellow Brick Road talking to Dorothy and halfway during some dialogue she suddenly keels over. Walter thought I was just messing around but, because of the position I had to be in to get the shot, I got cramp in my hip and had to straighten my leg because of the pain. In the process Billina 'fainted'.

My other abiding memory is just how hot the mirrored set was. It was not only heavily lit, it was often full of people and with no air conditioning... in the summer. People were doing what the evil Witch in the first Oz movie did: melting!

I'll never forget the test shot we did, which was in the crate as the sea empties. It took four of us to puppeteer Billina for that shot - which I had to be in a wet suite to do - and the camera kept looking puzzled, then annoyed. Eventually he says to us, "Do you all have to behind the chicken"? We just look at one another before answering, "Yes, if you want it to stay alive"!

We had a shot to do with Billina and the Gump that required me to perform her through the floor. This was one of the first shots with Second Unit who weren't used to working with puppets. I'd already done about 20 takes and had had my hand inside of the puppet all that time. Everything went quiet for a while and we thought they were discussing another shot. No, they'd all gone to lunch. I suppose it was a compliment that they thought Billina was alive and knew this!

With Walter getting fired, and the rehired, did production ever stop?

The production did come to a halt for a while but, if my memory serves me correctly, it was only for a few days. We did all wonder what was going to happen and we all felt for Walter because he was such a nice guy.

Is there any surviving movie props that you own or know still exist?

I don't know of any props that still exist. It's only recently that I saw the photograph of Billina when she was in an exhibition somewhere. I'm sure there are some around and I know quite a few yellow bricks went missing at the end of production!

I know it was so long ago, but are there any deleted scenes that you know did not make it into the final cut of the film?

Yes, you're right, it's too long ago! ( lol )

Thank you Mak for the wonderful Interview!

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